Thank you storm2284 Can I call you storm? It is hard to remember the numbers

Thanks for reminding us all Storm, a lot of players, especially newer ones, get confused at the situation surrounding these trades.

On my international account I had in '11, I was scammed. (Out of a great horse too.) It's not fun, even when the scammers are punished!

I've had a lot of messages asking to trade, I've even had to put it at the top of my page in bold red writing! Yet some people still ask, despite reading it.

Same here Shadowpony.

Some people just don't get the message, but I guess it wasn't really emphasised enough, until now.

Hopefully more people will understand now and avoid warnings or being fleeced themselves.

Thank you Storm for the reminder
Although, however much players are reminded, some will still choose to ignore it. Just like how players ignore the no bumping rule or no advertising via. PMs. Sadly putting newer players who haven't been told the rules of trades may fall victim of scammers who choose to break the rules.
I'm glad those players get kicked out eventually, but I still feel sorry for those who are victims of scammers who will never get their horse/passes/items back...
I, for one, have been scammed out of a 5th element horse. Sad to say, the player that scammed me is still playing...

I think it was a good idea putting this up in the forum, most people who frequency it now will see it. It's unfortunate that it seems to be on the rise though, poor Mods must be exhausted

Yes that's a great idea!

Wow

If only people would have the common sense of Admin.....

Glad this is cleared up
Hopefully if people see this topic there won't be as many questions in the game play

Storm2284 is a mod (hense the green name) and Admins are Ow, MeOw, etc. who have their names in bold.

At last, a real explination

I found this out when a player kindly told me this wasn't allowed (after I made an offer), and I hadn't really thought about it up til then but it seems really obviously a terrible idea now haha.

One thing I think is a problem though is this information isn't obviously given to players? You can find it by chance on some people's pages (though it's mostly "I don't do swaps" rather than it being against the rules, it seemed like a thing that was just a personal preference) but in the rules you get taken to the karma section, and it says "no cheating" but it doesn't say anything specific about swaps... And that's when I'm looking for anywhere that it says you shouldn't agree to swaps.

Is it somewhere that I'm missing? Even so, it isn't easy to find.

It would be good to protect players if, when negotation emails are being sent, as well as "never give your password to anyone" warnings, it said rules like this as well. Or how are you meant to know?? Word of mouth isn't going to reach lots of players in time! I had about 90 days seniority before I found this out!

All players were verbally warned by a private message from Admin in October 2014 the message you can see below. The only reason I have a copy is because I discussed it on one of my videos, because at the time it didn't seem completely clear. Now I have a better grasp of it, but players still continue to contact me asking for trades or services that violate this, now firstly I just tell them it's not allowed and why. But for new players this is not obvious and it does leave a loop hole, were scammers are most likely to continue to target those whom just don't know any better. I do think it needs to be clearer and easier to find, because I'm sure most people do not bother to read the Terms of Use. And personally I don't think it is very clear what it can cover, but as a rule of thumb what I know understand is, if there is not an official route set up for such a trade, service or sale, then you do not make that trade, swap or sale.




“Hello Everyone,
Lately it has been brought to my attention that there have been some misunderstandings concerning what is or isn't allowed when buying or selling items on the game.

I wish to clarify a few points to make sure we are all on the same page regarding item or pass trafficking.

What is pass or item trafficking?
It's simply performing a transaction outside of the available settings and systems offered directly by the game.

- For instance selling a regular horse in a direct sale over 1 000 000 equus and 20 passes isn't possible on Howrse. Some players will therefore sell a second low value horse for a high price to get around the fixed and allowed maximum price. This isn't allowed, if we set a limit there is a reason behind it and trying to get around it is in essence a way of cheating. Not to mention the number of scams this type of transaction generates.

- Black Market items can be exchanged against other Black Market items or equus or given thanks to a donation but only within certain limits. When you donate an item via the gift system, you do it freely and shouldn't ask for a fee for it. That's is going around the intended nature of this feature and therefore not allowed.
This includes listing black market items as being for sale on your presentations or saying that black market items will be accepted in lieu of passes for negotiable horse sales which is also pass/item trafficking.

- You cannot sell passes on the game, so using the horse sales or item exchanges as a payment for that type of transaction isn't allowed.

Here are a few of the points that can be found in our Terms of Sale and Terms of Use regarding un-allowed transactions.

In the Terms of Use:
Chapter 3 . USE OF SERVICES AND RULES OF CONDUCT

3.1 Use of Services.

a) You must be authorised to use the Services for which you register in accordance with these Terms or any other terms applicable to such a Service.
b) The Services are intended for personal use only and you must in no event use them in any way for commercial purposes without obtaining a licence to do so from us and/or our licensors.
c) You shall not, directly or indirectly:
(i) sell, rent out or market the Content;

In the terms of Sale:

Chapter 3. Grant of License.
3.3 Transfer of Credits, Subscription or Additional Content.Except where the Service allows a transfer and/or exchange by way of a specific feature within the Service, You shall not transfer or otherwise exchange the Credits, the Subscription or Additional Content within the Service to other users. OWLIENT prohibits and does not recognize any purported transfers of Credits, Subscription(s) or Additional Content effectuated outside the Services. Accordingly, in no event shall You transfer, sell, or otherwise exchange in kind (nor attempt to do the same) Credits for « real » money, or outside of the Service.

Chapter 6.Credits and Subscription have no real value.
Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary contained in these Terms of Sale or the Terms of Use, Additional Content, Subscription and Credits, or any other terminology used to describe such, have no monetary or “real world” value and may in no event be exchanged or redeemed for “real” currency or in kind.
OWLIENT prohibits and does not recognize the purported sale, gift or trade in the « real world » of anything that appears or originates in the Services. Accordingly, You may not sell or transfer Additional Content, Subscription or Credits by any means, nor buy such Additional Content, Subscription or Credits for any purposes other than for their use in the Service(s). Similarly, Subscription(s) or Credits cannot be used to gamble with other users, except if such a feature is expressly included and permitted by OWLIENT in the Service.

You can also find a line concerning this on the karma page:
"Cheating: Asking other users their passwords, organizing scams, breaches of trust, stealing accounts, trafficking with accounts, passes or in-game items."

I hope this will clarify any remaining doubts concerning what you can or not do on Howrse and allow you to enjoy your game.
Best Regards
Ow”

I'm not sure I was active when that was sent

It's true that Term of Use are not very widely respected, but even so, that contains a lot of information and is pretty dense to read; some of the players are really young and can't reasonably be expected to remember and understand that, surely... I definitely think this information needs to get out more clearly.

"If there is not an official route set up for such a trade, service or sale, then you do not make that trade, swap or sale." <- That's a really good rule, with your permission Twilight Connemaras, I'd like to put that on my page for anyone who looks?

Yeah, even for me the Terms of Use are not an easy read and not appealing because they can cover a lot more than is mentioned.

Yes that is okay

thanks for adding that TC!

yes i totally understand that not everyone was here when the message was sent out, being one of the reasons i felt posting this topic was appropriate, in fact i think i may just have a little round op of other things at some point in time as posts at the top of the forums, all in good time though, for now sticking with the matter in hand of keeping our players as safe as possible with the above

Thank goodness, the number of times I have to type: "I am sorry, this type of trade is not allowed as it is outside the official routes" Per day. It's enough to wear my fingers off. I've now got a standard message which I just copy and past Does the trick though.

Thanks storm2284. Hopefully this will save my fingers.

TC- I don't think I'll put on my page. Like Momolai is doing. I'll just wave my hand around and direct to you

[quote=1504210114][author]storm2284[/author]thanks for adding that TC!

yes i totally understand that not everyone was here when the message was sent out, being one of the reasons i felt posting this topic was appropriate, in fact i think i may just have a little round op of other things at some point in time as posts at the top of the forums, all in good time though, for now sticking with the matter in hand of keeping our players as safe as possible with the above [/quote:0]

No problem





Thanks I could do with the extra dozen messages

I wasn't on Howrse when all you players got the message but I know that it is not allowed, in fact a few days ago I got asked to do this and I said no, and the player eve had 77 days of seniority!
Thanks storm!

Seniority doesn't always count for knowledge, if players only come on here and care for a few horses and don't bother reading the rules, game manual etc. they won't know much about the game. I mean, I've only recently become an active player in teams and forums

I'd been playing for a bit over 2 years before I found that trades like these were against the rules, just after I'd done a trade that went smoothly for a horse I still have now. Either way, I see why it would be against the rules. However, it would be helpful to have a simple version of the rules in one place, one with no open ends or room for 'what ifs'...

I'm just speaking too much tonight, well, I'll go back to watching...

To be honest, I just wish howrse would make an option for exchanging items. They won't, of course, because they'll lose money (as if they didn't get enough...) but it would certainly clear up the whole scamming issue.

there is something called the item exchange for exactly that.. exchanging items

You can't exchange passes or horses for items though, that would be nice!

Yes I would like that to
But if it is a rule than its a rule